Ovo je s hrvatskog prevedeno na engleski za one Hrvate koji dovoljno ne govore i ne razumiju hrvatski a i za Amerikance. Po datumu ćete vidjeti da je to pisano 2010. Ja sam tu bio prijavljen korisničkim imenom “Delivuk”.
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POLEMIKA IZMEĐU TINE I DELIVUKA
“NEMA REVIZIJE POVIJESTI – JASENOVAC JE ČINJENICA”
- prosinca 2019.
Bog! dragi Tomislave,
Tražio si da ti dadnem pojašnjenje o opisu koji je izišao kao komentar na stranici HRVATSKA I USTAŠTVO na portalu javno.com. Kako danas kiša pada, iz kuće ne izlazim, TV ne gledam, ne znam šta ću sam sa sobom…Odem na računalo i pronađoh ovo što si tražio. Tako sam naletio na stranicu colonia.tino na portalu javnom. On je tu pisao da nema Revizije o Jasenovcu. Tada ga je sletio jedan korisnik Delivuk. To sam bio ja Mile Boban, Otporaš. Interesantna polemika.
Pozdrav. Bog! mb.
(Autor: Miroslav Smolković) NASLOVNICA
Sliku učitao: ivana.josipovic.prkos.com
MITOVI I LEGENDE
Nema revizije povijesti – Jasenovac je činjenica
Bez obzira na velikosrpsku-prokomunističku propagandu o 700.000 žrtava, Jasenovac je ipak sramotno gubilište na prostoru takozvane NDH.
Foto: Tinolovka-news
Nažalost povijesna je činjenica kako je Jasenovac bio jedan od najstrašnijih logora Drugog svjetskog rata po uzoru na nacističke logore smrti diljem takozvanog Trećeg Reicha.
Na bilo koji način pokušavati umanjiti jasenovačke žrtve, danas, 65 godina nakon što su užasi Drugog svjetskog rata iza nas naprosto je pokušaj revizije povijesti koja ide na ruku koljačima s Bleiburga.
Naime, povezivati ustaštvo sa hrvatskim narodom jednostavno nije moguće i najviše šteti upravo hrvatskom narodu, dok je ustaški pokret nastao kao otpor monarhističkom, velikosrpskom režimu, dotle je ustaški režim bio zločinački pokušaj udruživanja privilegirane kaste radi ostvarivanja vlastitih interesa u službi nacističke Njemačke.
Nema opravdanja za Jasenovac i Bleiburg
Hrvatska nije nastala zahvaljujući ustaškoj Hrvatskoj ili komunističkoj Jugoslaviji, suvremena Hrvatska, uz stravične poteškoće, nastala je u vihoru oslobodilačkog Domovinskog rata unatoč ustašama i komunistima.
Da je kojim slučajem povijest krenula drugačijim tijekom nakon 1918. godine, Hrvatska bi bila suvremena i moderna država neopterećena crvenom i crnom ideologijom koje su Hrvatskoj priuštile Domovinski rat. Upravo zahvaljujući komunizmu i fašizmu rat na ovim prostorima bio je krvav kao u najgorim zapisima Apokalipse, nedvojbeno, te dvije ideologije zatrovale su narode i generirale mržnju koja se taložila 45 godina, nakon čega je eksplodiralo bure baruta.
Ne samo što je Jasenovac ” bila sramotna ljaga na duši hrvatskog naroda ” ( Kada je to Stepinac rekao on je naravno mislio na ustaški režim, jasno da se izravno nije mogao izraziti kako je mislio, kada se obraćate režimu onda morate i koristiti jezik režima da biste poslali određenu poruku ), Jasenovac je bio uteg zbog kojeg su Hrvati morali proći svojevrsnu golgotu da bi uopće stigli do prilike da imaju svoju državu.
Drugim riječima, nedvojbena je povijesna činjenica kako je u Jasenovcu stradalo preko 80.000 žrtava, ne samo Židova ( iako je židovski narod najviše patio ), Srba, Roma, nego i veliki broj Hrvata koji se na bilo koji način nije slagao sa režimom, uostalom u Jasenovcu jedno vrijeme je bio zatočen i pravi vođa hrvatskoga naroda toga vremena, Vladko Maček.
Komunistička Jugoslavija generirana velikosrpskom politikom Rankovića i drugova, nastojala je Hrvatima nametnuti kolektivnu krivnju kroz monstruoznu konstrukciju o Jasenovcu kao stratištu 700.000 ljudi, što je bila suluda tvrdnja koju je prvi revidirao pokojni hrvatski predsjednik dr. Franjo Tuđman, naime Tuđman je jasenovački pokolj sveo u realnije okvire, no, ipak, usprkos tome, Jasenovac je sam po sebi dovoljno veliko gubilište i bez dodatnih pretjerivanja ili omalovažavanja.
Omalovažavati žrtve koncentracijskog logora u Jasenovcu znači ponovno ubijati žrtve komunističkog režima na Križnim putevima smrti.
Zajedničko totalitarnim ideologijama upravo je umanjivanje vlastitih zločina te preuveličavanje zločina svoga ideloškog suparnika, obje ideologije ne shvaćaju da je zločin uvijek zločin bez obzira tko ga i u čije ime počinio te da oprosta za zločine ne može i ne smije biti. Hrvatska je u vrijeme predsjednika Tuđmana jasno osudila ustaški režim kroz suđenje ustaškom časniku Dinku Šakiću, naime, Šakić je osuđen na maksimalnu kaznu koje je hrvatsko pravosuđe za takvu vrstu zločina predvidjelo. Dinko Šakić proglašen je krivim te osuđen na 20 godina zatvora.
Hrvatska nastala unatoč ustaško-partizanskom divljaštvu
Stjepan Mesić vjerojatno će u povijesti biti zabilježen kao jedan od najgorih hrvatskih predsjednika svih vremena, međutim, Stjjepan Mesić izabran je voljom hrvatskoga naroda i većine hrvatskih građana, drugim riječima, Mesić je bio demokratski lider Hrvatske i ukoliko je Mesić ” izdajnik ” on nije ” izdajnik ” zato što je progovarao o Jasenovcu, već prije svega zato što je hrvatske branitelje, ratnog hrvatskog predsjednika pokušao povezati sa ideologijom kojoj oni ne pripadaju, naime, upravo je Mesić posljednji preživjeli ustaški glazbenik u Hrvatskoj. Stoga i njegovi pledoajei o antifašizmu imaju vjerodostojnost kao ispovijedi koljača koncentracijskih logora.
Nažalost, čak i danas, kada ” imamo Hrvatsku “, još uvijek u toj Hrvatskoj nismo pronašli svoj mir, dok većina građana nastoji preživjeti prisjećajući se legendarnih pobjeda u Domovinskom ratu, ustaše i partizani i dalje ratuju na obroncima Kozare.
Zaključno, suvremena Hrvatska država nastala u vihoru Domovinskog rata stvorena je na temeljima pravedne i vjekovne težnje hrvatskoga naroda da napokon ostvari svoje pravo na slobodnu i suverenu, ali demokratsku, državu, ne zahvaljujući ustaško-komunističkim režimima, nego njima unatoč.
(ne radi poveznica)
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Objavljeno: 09.03.2010. u 14:36h
Broj jedinstvenih otvaranja (prvih 24h): 31
Prosječna ocjena: 1
Broj bodova: 31
Broj otvaranja uratka – Prvih 24h: 1063
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Prijavite uradak uredništvu !!!
Zanimljivi komentari između Tinolovke-News, kojeg je korisničko ime bilo Tino i broken a ustvari to je ista osoba, a pravo ime je Miroslav Smolković, i korisnika Delivuk. Delivuk je unuk pok. Gabre Boban, Vuškin (1879-Nova Godina 1948) iz Bobanove Drage. Tema je bila:
N E M A R E V I Z I J E J A S E N O V C A – J A S E N O V A C J E Č I N J E N I C A
Tino
10.03.2010 03:51 h
Pročita san tvoj članak i malo što san razumija. Mnogi se trude da dokažu da je u Jasenovcu ubijeno što manje Srba i drugi, tako da ji što više ostane na životu. Kako ti pišeš izgleda da je tebi za što tu u Jasenovcu nije poginulo što više Srba tako da ji što manje ima u Rvackoj. Tino moj dida bi za take ljude reka da su obuzeti mržnjom za koju nema lika. Pitan se zašto ti toliko mrziš Srbe? I sami Srbi bi volili da ji je što manje poginulo i da ji ima što više živi. Oni to nato je sa drugima i dokazat, a ti Tino nastojiš reći da ji je bilo ubijeno onoliko koliko su ispočetka tvoji antifašisti govorili i pisali. Bolan tino ja san za ekonomiju ljudske krvi, posebno naše rvacke krvi pa što god manje ljudi je ubijeno, više krvi se je uštedilo. Svaki normalan čovik će bit sretan i veseo kada se dokaže da je u Jasenovcu poginulo samo nekoliko Srba umisto sedam stotina iljada kako bi ti volija. Kad si ti u svojoj mržnji taki čovik, sva sreća za naš rvacki narod da ti nisi bija u ustašama i u Jasenovcu. Tada bi brojka poginuli Srba u Jasenovcu prešla jedan milijun. Eto tino, moj dida bi reka: svit i na svitu svašta.
10.03.2010 12:55 h
Tvoj dida je očito svašta govorio, samo ništa što valja.
Ne znam gdje si vidio ovdje mržnju jer ja govorim o žrtvama a ne govorim o mržnji.
Dakle, postoji službeni popis ljudi, imenom i prezimenom koji su stradali u Jasenovcu. Tu se nema o čemu raspravljati, ljudi nisu stoka, ljudi su ljudi i ljudski život nema cijenu.
Dakle, ja sam tamo bio i sve to vidio… Za mene, ali i za čitavo civilizirano društvo, apsolutno je neprihvatljivo negirati žrtve Holokausta, to naravno nije moguće u SAD-u, bez da odete iza brave ili u ludnicu, to nije moguće ni u Hrvatskoj. Civilizirani svijet to ne prihvaća. I zlo odbacuje. A neće mi nitko reći da je SAD komunistička država.
Drugim riječima, kada se pročitaju komentari, jedino sam ja ovdje dosljedan i normalan Hrvat, jer smatram da ljude ne treba ubijati da žrtve i sa Bleiburga i sa Jasenovca treba dostojno poštovati.
Ako netko nastoji umanjivati žrtve, taj netko je psihički bolesnik kojemu treba obezbijediti smještaj u Vrapču.
Dakle, ja bih bio sretan da tamo nitko nije ubijen, ali kako sam tamo bio i vidio popis ubijenih, vido način na koji su mnogi od njih ubijeni, sretan ne mogu biti. niti to želim biti…
tino
10.03.2010 13:54 h
Moj pajdo mi posla nešto lično za tebe i kaže mi da ti kažem da tvoje ćakulanje sa menon te liči. Meni je to drago što pajdo kaže, jer što god tebe liči to je lipo i dobro. Kaže pajdo da ti uživaš u što većin žrtvama pa mi posla nešto na engleskon što ja ne razumin, pa ti šaljen jer ti si učen čovik i znaš ovi jezik pa ćeš znati šta oni kažu i koliko je poginulo ljudi u Jasenovcu. Više nego si ti mislija pa sad moš bit malo zadovoljniji, osim ako ne želiš da se i ova cifra revizira, jer ti si po tvojoj učenosti protiv reviziranja povisti.
Tino, kako moj pajdo kaže da se ti ličiš ćakulati sa menom pa da ti iskreno kažen i meni je drago ćakulati sa tobom, jer mislim da ćeš malo po malo se izličit tvoje antifašističke bolesti kakvu god imadeš. Eto to me veseli. Eto tino ja san za ekonomiju ljucke krvi a ti uživaš u što većin brojevima, pa što god su veći brojevi ljudi poginuli, više krvi je proliveno. Što god više krvi se prolije, manje se krvi ekonomizira. Pa eto ti moj lipi tino uživaj u čemu oćeš. Ćao.
tino
10.03.2010 13:58 h
izvini, zaboravija san ti poslati što mi je pajdo lično za tebe posla.
Short documentary about terrible genocide. 840 000 Serbs are tortured and killed. Many of the Croatian fascist have escaped after world war 2, and never been convicted for terrible crime.
Jasenovac concentration camp was the largest concentration and extermination camp in Croatia during World War II. It was established by the Ustaša (Ustasha) regime of the Independent State of Croatia in August 1941. It was dismantled in April 1945. Unlike other concentration and extermination camps, in Jasenovac the main victims were ethnic Serbs, although other groups, like Jews and Gypsies, were also the victims there
” U Jasenovcu je stradalo preko 80.000 žrtava, ne samo Židova (iako je židovski narod najviše patio), Srba, Roma, nego i veliki broj Hrvata koji se na bilo koji način nije slagao sa režimom, uostalom u Jasenovcu jedno vrijeme je bio zatočen i pravi vođa hrvatskoga naroda toga vremena, Vladko Maček. “
10.03.2010 14:28 h
- Delivuk zar ti misliš da sam ja toliko naivan da ne znam da si pajdo zapravo ti, zaboravljaš s kim imaš posla?
- Nemoj me vrijeđati po zadnji puta ti kažem, ja nisam izmislio taj popis nego sam ga dobio od ZNANSTVENIKA, POVIJESNIČARA, IZMEĐU OSTALOGA I TUĐMAN O NJEMU PIŠE I SPOMINJE TAJ BROJ ŽRTAVA U NEKIM SVOJIM KNJIGAMA. Dakle obrati se Tuđmanu.
- Ne znam što su te opsijeli Srbi, kada ja nisam napisao da je najviše Srba stradalo u Jasenovcu, najviše je stradalo Židova ali i Hrvata, Roma i ostalih.
Ti koji dijeliš čovjeka prema nacionalnosti takvo što ti na pamet ti ne bi palo u Americi. Što u Americi frajeru ne izađeš na ulice i prosipaš rasizam protiv tamnoputih ljudi na primjer.
Moraš shvatiti da je čovjek, čovjek, bez obzira na boju kože i nacionalnost.
Upozoravam te, nemoj me vrijeđati, kao što ja ne vrijeđam tebe.
Jurčević, Tuđman, Zidić te svi ostali profesori i znanstvenici, uglavnom desne orijantacije konsenuzalono se slažu da je Jaseniovac gubilište. U Hrvatskoj se ide u zatvor zbog negiranja Holokausta. Ide se i u SAD-u.
Hrvatska nema ništa sa Pavelićem, Pavelić je kukavica koji je zbrisao iz Hrvatske umjesto da se borio, ostavio je narod i vojsku na milost i nemilost komunistima. Čak se i jedan zločinac poput Hitlera ponio hrabrije te ostao u svom Berlinu.
10.03.2010 14:56 h
Dakle, ja nigdje ne spominjem ( hrvatski povjesničari nikada nisu priznaki izmišljotinu o 840.000 žrtava ) izmišljenu brojku od 840 000 Serbs, to je velikosrpska propaganda. Upravo zato je Tuđman i napravio kroz svoje knjige reviziju brojke žrtava Jasenovca te stavio i sveo broj u realne okvire od 60.000 do 80.000 žrtava. Uopće ne vidim što bi u tome bilo sporno…
colonija.tino
10.03.2010 21:34 h
Smija san se kad san pročita tvoj komentar i sitija se našeg Stipuke golubića koji je po selu uvik priča da on zna pogodit kad će kiša padat, kad je vedro i kad je oblačno. Ta njegov validba dojadila seljanima te ga pitali, bolan Stipuka kako to ti sve znaš. Stipuka njima odgovori da on pošalje svoja dva sina vani Miću i Ivana da vide kako je vrime. Kad se vrate, jedan kaže da je oblačno a drugi da nije. Ja izidjen vani i jedan od nji pogodija. Tako isto i za kišu, jedan kaže da pada drugi da kiša nepada. Kad ja izidjen vani, materemi jedna od nji pogodija.
Tino, tako nešto bi se moglo reći i za tvoje žrtve u Jasenovcu. Neko je pogodio, ili Srbi ili Hrvati, a za mene to nije bilo pitanje. Pitanje je bilo kak si ti reka da “NEMA REVIZIJE POVIJSETI JASENOVCA”, a ja stojim na tome da ima. To je sve! I izgleda da te to ljuti i ti to nazivaš:
“Upozoravam te nemoj me vrijedjati…” Moj bi dida reka kad jedan čovik gubi živce, unda stane prititi. Bolan tino smiri se malo. Svak zna pa i tica na grani da je bilo ubijanja nevini osoba svugde na svitu i u svakom ratu pa tako i kod nas u Rvackoj. Svak zna da su tvoji antifašisti izabrali Jasenovac ko jedno gubilište, kako ti kažeš: GUBILIŠTE. Meni je moj dida priča da to nije bilo nikakvo gubilište nego Radni Sabirni Logor. Da te malo zadovoljin, to nije toliko ni sporno. Sporno je kako se ti minjaš, danas jedno sutra drugo.
Tino, moj dida bi reka: Ko oće koku oće voku. To znači ko ukrade malu kokoš, ukrast će i velikog vola. Znači kradljivac ostaje kradljivac, ko zlikovac ko je ubija nevine osobe ostaje zlikovac. Tu se svi slazemo. To nikako nije ni bilo pitanje niti spominjanje mista gubilista kako si ti reka. Pitanje je bilo REVIZIJA POVIJESTI JASENOVCA našto si ti počeja tvoje antifašističke litanije iznosit, te si ustvrdija “NEMA REVIZIJE POVIJESTI”.
Tino, reka je meni moj pajdo da ti nemaš živaca za normalne ćakule. Ti punda p…… i počneš šijat rukan okolo sebe ko policajac na raskršću. Oladi se malo. I sutra je dan, reka bi moj dida. Ja san sa svin što san ti reka ti ja reći da su Rvati poubijali manje Srba u Jasenovcu, danas bi ji bilo više. To san nazva ekonomija rijeke krvi. Ti se naljutija što san ti reka da je puno manje Srba poginilo u Jesenovcu nego što se priča. Ti, tino, ko dobar sveznadar, bi treba počet tražit one koji su bez ikakva strava svake godine dizali žrtve sa prave brojke, kolika god ona da je bila, na brojke preko milijuna, da zašto su ti ljudi te brojke tako dizali? Kakva je njima svrva bila naduvati te brojke do preko milijuna? Kakva je jopet bila svrva nekin Rvatima virovati tolike godine da je ta brojka tačna. Tino ti skačeš s kamena na kamen, ko ljudi kada prilaze jedna mali potočić i skaču sa kamena na kamen da jin se obuća ne stopi. Za ovo što san iznija moje mišljenje ti ćeš sad navalit drvlje i kamenje na mene. Vala Bogu da san daleko od tebe pa me nećeš moć stavit u KAVEZ I KLJUČE BACIT. Sve što moš sad učinit je reć da te vridjan. Ćao.
10.03.2010 21:43 h
Jedno je biti pijan i “kamenovati sinagogu” A drugo je što svojim lažima ‘KAMENUJE” sve što je hrvatsko – državotvorno. Lagati, da ga je majka učila da mrzi Srbe, što dodati?
Tkoja će majka učiti svoju dijecu na ZLO, i.t.d..? Normalnom dosta!
10.03.2010 21:48 h
Ja mislim, da vi neki sa svojim komentarima prelazite u dosadu. Vi niste povjesničari, već to prepustimo budićim povjesničarima, kada se malo ohlade glave, tako zvani “antifašisti”, da se sa povijesnog objektivnog pogleda, pogledaju okolnosti pod kojim je stvorena NDH. Mi samo trebamo donositi dokomentarne dokaze različitih stručnjaka, da se ne čuje samo jedna strana, koju smo samo i jedino morali slušati zadnjih preko 65 godina.
Na obje strane je bilo dobra i zla. Zar nije bilo žalosno, da je se borijo brat protiv brata?
Ja sm uvjeren da ima na JAVNOME i onih čitatelja koji žele čuti i znati što kažu i oni koji su sudjelovali u stvaranju NDH.
Zato, neka svatko iznose svoje stavove, a neka vjeruje tko tkome hoće, a pišući o hrvatskoj povjesti, zašto bi se išlo u zatvor? Znači, neki se boje ISTINE, a ISTINA će nas spasiti.
Ja sam čvrsto uvjeren, da moja dva pokojna BRATA nisu ubila nitkoga, jer čak nisu imali vremena ni biti na bojištu, a ipak su prošli KRIŽNI PUT, nevini kao što je i naš DRAGI ISUS bio NEVIN, pa su ga opet ljudi popljuvali i na smrt osudili.
Ja nikoga na mrzim, jer moj odgoj i moja vjera me na to ne uči, a ne znaci ako branim istinu o žalosnim događajima iz ww2, da sam zli čovik ili po “antifašističkom”. da sam fašista, što nikada i hrvatski narod to nije bilo prisutno.
Sa ovim završajem svoje komentare iz svezi ww2, a donosit ću istinu o hrvatskoj, a kome to smeta, neka ne čita.
Uz hrvatski pozdrav, svako dobro, svakome želim! Domoljub
10.03.2010 23:20 h
Delivuk
Ja sam te upozorio kada si počeo lupetat gluposti. Dakle, kada si počeo nabrajati ” moj Tito “, ” moj Mesić “.
Ja ne želim biti ni Titovac ni Mesićevac, ja sam Tuđmanovac, prema tome vjerujem u njegovu prosudbu glede Jasenovca kao povjesničara, Tuđman je naime bio povjesničar.
Tvoj deda očito ništa nije radio osim što je govorio… Pa da ti ja kažem nešto što je moj deda govorio kao ustaški časnik, kao vojnik koji je sva bojišta prošao u NDH i sa Francetićem izbio na Drinu.
On je vidiš rekao ovo, da bi Paveliću sve kosti slomio nakon što je njega i vojsku izdao i kukavički zbrisao sa Bleiburga dok su komunisti masakrirali ljude na tom Bleiburgu. Što nije ostao uz svoju vojsku, svoje ljude kao vrhovni zapovjednik? Nije zato jer je bio hulja i kukavica.
Dok je Pavelić bio kod Franca ( još jednog diktatora ) i sa Stojedinovićem pregovarao dotle je moj deda s križarima ratovao protiv UDBE ( 46. GODINA ), da bi se kasnije skrivao pred UDBOM punih sedam, osam godina po bunkerima, šumama i zaseocima, a njegovu ženu, moju baku je ta ista UDBA barem 30 puta odvela u zatvor te je tamo mučila, hvala Bogu, ona je i danas živa, pa o tome može svjedočiti i svjedočila je kada su policijski istražitelji raspitivali se o komunističkim poslijeratnim zloćinima. Zato mi molim te ne spominji dedu, on je očito više govorio nego lutkar u cirkusu, a da ništa konkretno od toga…
Domoljub
11.03.2010 00:11 h
Ja sam čvrsto uvjeren, da moja dva pokojna BRATA nisu ubila nitkoga, jer čak nisu imali vremena ni biti na bojištu, a ipak su prožli KRIZNI PUT.
To je sigurno točno, jer je na Bleiburgu stradalo tisuće nevinih ljudi.
tino,tino, tino, i opet tino,
11.03.2010 01:09 h
Drago mije. Ti se sve malo po malo približavaš našoj rvackoj istini. Sad si spa na Pavelića i njegove kosti. Siti se šta si prije lupa. Sad si Tudjmanovac. Pa i drugi su. Da je Tudjman Kinez, šta bi punda ti bija? Tudjman je Rvat za to si i ti Rvat. Tudjman se borija za Rvacku za to si ti za tu Tudjmanovu Rvacku. Tito se nija borija za Rvacku za to ti nisi za Tita. Mesić se nija borija za Rvacku za to ti nisi za Mesića. Tako si ti to neki dan reka. Po tom tovm pravilu svi Rvati koji su se borili za Rvacku su dobri Rvati i ti si za njiha. Kad je to tako punda se je i Pavelić borija za Rvacku i on bi triba bit dobar Hrvat. Kad se je Pavelić borija za Rvacku i tada je bilo Rvata u Rvackoj koji su volili Rvacku ko i Pavelić pa su prišli k njemu da se zajednički bore za tu našu pa i tvoju Rvacku.
Tino u toj Pavelićevoj borbi za Rvacku i tvoj deda je bija tu u rvackoj vojski. Neki dan je bija u domobranima, tako si to ti reka, sad je jopet u ustašama. Gdje je sada tvoja istina?Je li to taj isti tvoj deda koji je bija u Domobranima i otiša kod Pavelića posredovati i tako on, tvoj dida spasija 125 Srba. Tino, to je velika stvar i kod Boga i čovika spasiti tolike ljude od sigurne smrti. O tvom didi bi se triba film snimiti, tako da se istina zna di je ko bija. tada bi se saznalo dali je tvoj deda bio u ustašama ili u domobranima.
Meni je ža da je tvoj dida tolike muke podnija, ko ona “blažinova luga” kokoš, ako se sićaš kad san ti neki dan pisa kako je jedna kokoš bila pod varićakon. Ja te tu razumin. I moja dva strica koja su bila u ustašama ne bi bolje prošli od tvog dida da nisu ona druga dva strica koji su nosili srpsku šajkaču i bili u antifašističkin brigadama ji štitili. Moj dida je bija seoski tabornik, nikom zla nije nanija, pa ni sa “narodnim vlastima” nije ima puno kavge.
Samo tino, koliko je nekima poznato a ni ja se nisan jučer rodija, tvoj dida bi moga biti narodni heroj za dilo koje je napravija kod Pavelića i spasija 125 Srba. Po antifašističkim pravilima oni bi ga svrstali u “prvoborce” i ima njijovu penziju dok je živ, ne bi se triba tolike godine krit. Možda se je mora krit za to što je bija ustaša, a ti tino znaš da su antifašisti bili više protiv ustaša nego Domobrana. Ili ćemo se držat one: di laž ruča, ne dočeka večeru.
Tvoja baba, dragon Bogu vala, je još živa kako ti kažeš pa bi ti nju triba pitat za puno stvari prije nego bude kasno. Molim te tino pozdravi tvoju babu i reci njoj da ti sve ispriča što ona zna, di njezin muž bio ili u ustašama ili u domobranima, jer čini se da ni ti tačno ne znaš.
11.03.2010 01:51 h
Da bi spasio 100 ljudi ne trebaš biti ” narodni heroj ” već samo čovjek.
Ti znaš da je Pavelić nosao domobransku odoru, pred kraj rata sve češće.
Da su domobrani bili regularna vojska a ustaše stranačka. Kad to znaš, onda vrlo dobro znaš da se moj dede priključio regularnoj vojsci i dobio čin, isto tako znaš, da se on kasnije priključio i ustašama i tamo također dobio čin.. Da je bio u Pavelićevom zdrugu u Zagrebu i da je nakon toga otišao u Bosnu. Uostalom, potanko, dugo i naširoko Ivana je o tome pisala.
Uostalom, Hrvatski državni arhiv ima sve zabilješke o višim časnicima NDH. dovoljno je samo otići tamo.
Kako bi se Pavelić borio za Hrvatsku? Tako što je izdao vojsku i zbrisao k Stojadinoviću? Dok se Bleiburško polje pretvaralo u klaonicu i dok je tvoj deda ” govorija “.
Ne svi Hrvati, samo oni koji nisu ratni zličinci. U svakom žitu ima kukolja, pa i u Hrvatskome. Demokratska Hrvatska, samo to, ne talijanska, ne jugoslavenska i ne njemačka samo Hrvatska-Hrvatska.
Ti jednostavno moraš ozdraviti ili ostati bolestan. Tko još normalan dijeli ljude po nacionalnosti ili su krivi ili nisu. Nitko nije kriv zato što je ove ili one nacionalnosti, već zato što je dobar ili loš. Što ja tu mogu što je Pavelić izdao vojsku kojoj je bio zapovjednik, ja tu ne mogu ništa, nisam ga ja na to prisilio. pisma koju su pivali rvacki vojnici
11.03.2010 18:06 h
Pajdo mi je posla ovu pismu i kaže da su je marali pivat svi rvacki vojnici. Tino ja znan da su je pivali moja dva strica koji su nosili našu rvacku odoru. Ne znan za ona druga dva strica koji su nosili antifašističku jugoslavensku odoru. Tvoj dida je bija u dvi rvacke vojske, najprije u domobranima a kasnije u ustašama kako bi zavrsija kod Križara a poton se sakriva nekoliko godina po bunkerima. Ostaje za saznat jeli on pivao ovu pismu koju mi je pajdo posla. Ja je nisan nikad prija vidija.
USTASKA PJESMA
(Ispjevao Poglavnik, god. 1931.)
Videos
Anthem of the Ustaše: Puška Puca
Connor
YouTube – Jun 29, 2018
Puška Puca – Anthem of the Ustaše
Puška puca a top riče, grmi kao grom,
Sad Ustaša bojak bije za Hrvatski dom.
Puška puca krv se lije, dušman bježi klet,
A Ustaška hrabra vojska vrši zavjet svet.
Tjera smjelo dušmanina, s praga djedovskog,
I podiže staru slavu roda Hrvatskog.
Puška puca a top riče, barut miriše,
Mlad Ustaša na bojištu ranjen izdiše.
Ne plaši ga grom pušaka ni topova jek,
Dom, sloboda, vjerna ljubav, rani su mu lijek.
Oj Hrvatska zemljo mila, sviće danak tvoj,
Sad Ustaška hrabra vojska za te bije boj.
Meni je samo za da se ne more pivat uz gusle. Mozda tino ti je pores priokrenit na tvoj naci kako tebi odgovara, danas ovako, sutra onako i kak god vitar puse i oblake okrice.
pisma koju su pivali rvacki vojnici
11.03.2010 18:12 h
Pajdmo mi je posla ovu pismu i kaze da su je marali pivat svi rvacki vojnici. Tino ja znan da su je pivali moja dva strica koji su nosili nasu rvacku odoru. Ne znan za ona druga dva strica koji su nosili antifašističku jugoslavensku odoru. Tvoj dida je bija u dvi rvacke vojske, naj prija u domobranima a kasnije u ustasama kako bi zavrsija kod Križara a poton se sakriva nekoliko godina po bunkerima. Ostaje za znat jeli on pivao ovu pismu koju mi je pajdo posla. Ja je nisan nikad prija vidija.
USTAŠKA PJESMA
(Ispjevao Poglavnik, god. 1931.)
(audio 2019,g, još u funkciji) https://altcensored.com/watch?v=pOs82l8K1rk
Puška puca a top riče, grmi kao grom,
Sad Ustaša bojak bije za Hrvatski dom.
Puška puca krv se lije, dušman bježi klet,
A Ustaška hrabra vojska vrši zavjet svet.
Tjera smjelo dušmanina, s praga djedovskog,
I podiže staru slavu roda Hrvatskog.
Puška puca a top riče, barut miriše,
Mlad Ustaša na bojištu ranjen izdiše.
Ne plaši ga grom pušaka ni topova jek,
Dom, sloboda, vjerna ljubav, rani su mu lijek.
Oj Hrvatska zemljo mila, sviće danak tvoj,
Sad Ustaška hrabra vojska za te bije boj.
Meni je samo ža da se ne more pivat uz gusle. Možda tino ti je mores priokrenit na tvoj način kako tebi odgovara, danas ovako, sutra onako i kak god vitar puše i oblake okriće.
tino
11.03.2010 18:41 h
Zaboravija san te nešto pitat. Moj dida bi zna uvik govorit da jedan loš konj ima sam jednu manu: LOŠ i gotovo. Dobar konj ima sto mana, za to što je dobar, pa mu svak na nečemu nalazi manu. Što san te zaboravija pitat je dali i ti tako misliš? Ako jesi punda je Poglavnik dobar jer ima sto mana.
Delivuk
12.03.2010 00:13 h
Je li pjevao ili nije ne znam, nisam ga nažalost imao prilike upoznati. Moguće da jeste.
Ostalo ne bih komentirao jer ne vrijedi raspravljati, kada netko ideologiju stavlja ispred žrtve s njime se raspravljati ne može.
Ipak, kada kažeš ovo ” tebi odgovara, danas ovako, sutra onako i kak god vitar puše i oblake okriće. ”
Onda naravno nisu u pravu, naime, ovakvi moji stavovi nisu od jučer, nego oduvijek, potrebno je otići na moj tekst iz prošle godine, prije više od godine dana, a tekst govori o Vjekoslavu Lasiću, pa ćeš se uvjeriti u koegzistentnost mojih stavova, odnosno dosljednost.
Ti braniš svoj stav, ja svoj i tu narano nema ništa sporno. Pozicije se mijenjati neće, barem što se mene tiče.
tino
12.03.2010 13:33 h
Moj stav je rvacki stav, uvik bija i uvik će bit. Ja san bija žrtva u mojoj kući i antifašizma, komunizma, judoslavenstva i ustaštva. Ti si mene dotira sa tvojin antifašizmon do te mire da ti moran reći da mi je pun k… svi ti ideologija o kojim ti govoriš. Za pravo i tačno i ne znan šta to znači. Ako je bit Rvat ideologija, punda se ja tin ponosim. Ako je ideologija sve ono što pronosi naše rvastvo i naše rvacko ime, punda se ja jopet sa tin ponosim.
Ja san skopča tvoju poziciju. Ti se voliš svadjati. Moj dida bi reka da ti voliš bit svakon loncu poklopac. Pa budi ako te to čini velikin i veselin. Tino ti si pobidio. Ti nastavi i dalje mlatit antifašističku slamu, ja ću nastavit se molit mom dragom Bogu, baš sad u korizmeno vrime, poštivat i volit moju Rvacku sa svin njezinin lipotama i nelipotama, svin njezinim dobrin Rvatima i lošin Rvatima, jer što je rvcko ostaje uvik rvacko. Što je rvacko ja se tog ne odričen, ko što se Stepinac na sudu nije odrika ni jednog jedinog Rvata. Sa ovin završavan sa tobom svaku raspravu ovake vrste.
Moj dida bi reka: PAMETNIJI POPUŠTA!
12.03.2010 14:02 h
Delivuk
Ne bih se složio s tobom, ti si mene konstantno ponižavao i vrijeđao, evo čak i sad impliciraš da si ti vjernik a ja kao nisam. Te moj Tito, te moj Mesić, te sam izdajica, te sam ovakav ili onakav, ja tebe nisam spominjao osobno, već sam polemizirao sa tvojim stajalištima, bolje rečeno, sa stavovima tvog dede, koji je stalno govorio a ti to prenašao.
Ja ovdje nisam čuo niti jedan tvoj stav, osim mlaćenja prazne slame tvog djeda.
Stoga ti ja nisam ni htio oponirati kako zaslužuješ, naime, ja sam se ovdje prestavio imenom i prezimenom, ti se kriješ iz tri nicka. Vrlo dobro znaš koja su ostala dva.
Nisi čak ni spomenuo imena i prezimena tih stričeva, i djede o kojom toliko govoriš, tada bi znali tko se gdje i zašto borio.
Stoga ja potpuno podržavam tvoju ideju da se u korizmeno vrijeme pomoliš, pomoli se za sve žrtve Jasenovca, Bleiburga, za svog dedu, za mog dedu, za svoje stričeve, za sebe i za mene i za HRVATSKU, NARAVNO.
Članke mogu komentirati samo članovi kluba.
Prijavite se u klub ili se učlanite ukolikoto još niste učinili. Učlanjenje je besplatno.
2019-12-29
CONTROVERSY BETWEEN TINA AND DELIVUK
“THERE IS NO REVISION OF HISTORY – JASENOVAC IS A FACT”
December 29, 2019
God! dear Tomislav ,
You asked me to give you an explanation about the description that appeared as a comment on the CROATIA AND USTAŠTVO page on the javno.com portal. As it’s raining today, I don’t leave the house, I don’t watch TV, I don’t know what to do with myself… I went to the computer and found what you were looking for. That’s how I came across the colonia.tino page on the public portal. He wrote there that there is no Audit on Jasenovac. It was then landed by a Delivuk user. That was me, Mile Boban, Otporas. Interesting polemic.
Greetings. God! mb.
(Author: Miroslav Smolković) COVER
Image uploaded by: ivana.josipovic.drojas.com
MYTHS AND LEGENDS
There is no revision of history – Jasenovac is a fact
Regardless of the Greater Serbia-pro-communist propaganda about 700,000 victims, Jasenovac is still a shameful wasteland on the territory of the so-called NDH.
Photo: Tinolovka-news
Unfortunately, it is a historical fact that Jasenovac was one of the most terrible camps of the Second World War, modeled after the Nazi death camps throughout the so-called Third Reich .
In any way, trying to minimize the victims of Jasenovac, today, 65 years after the horrors of the Second World War are behind us, is simply an attempt to revise history, which favors the butchers of Bleiburg.
Namely, connecting the Ustasha with the Croatian people is simply not possible and it harms the Croatian people the most, while the Ustasha movement was created as a resistance to the monarchist, Great Serbian regime, until then the Ustasha regime was a criminal attempt to unite a privileged caste in order to achieve their own interests in the service of Nazi Germany.
There is no justification for Jasenovac and Bleiburg
Croatia was not created thanks to Ustasha Croatia or communist Yugoslavia, modern Croatia, with terrible difficulties, was created in the whirlwind of the Homeland War in spite of Ustasha and communists.
If, by any chance, history had taken a different course after 1918, Croatia would have been a modern and modern country, unencumbered by the red and black ideologies that afforded Croatia the Homeland War. Precisely thanks to communism and fascism, the war in these areas was as bloody as in the worst records of the Apocalypse, undoubtedly, those two ideologies poisoned the people and generated hatred that settled for 45 years, after which the powder keg exploded.
Not only that Jasenovac “was a shameful stain on the soul of the Croatian people” (When Stepinac said that, he was of course referring to the Ustasha regime, clearly he could not directly express himself as he meant, when you address the regime, you must also use the language of the regime to to send a certain message), Jasenovac was a weight due to which the Croats had to go through a kind of Golgotha in order to even get the opportunity to have their own state.
In other words, it is an indisputable historical fact that over 80,000 victims perished in Jasenovac, not only Jews (although the Jewish people suffered the most), Serbs, Roma, but also a large number of Croats who disagreed with the regime in any way, after all in The true leader of the Croatian people of that time, Vladko Maček, was imprisoned in Jasenovac for a time.
Communist Yugoslavia, generated by the Great Serbian policy of Ranković and his friends, tried to impose collective guilt on the Croats through the monstrous construction of Jasenovac as the place of execution of 700,000 people, which was an insane claim that was first revised by the late Croatian president Dr. Franjo Tuđman, namely Tuđman reduced the Jasenovac massacre to a more realistic framework, but, nevertheless, in spite of that, Jasenovac is a big enough losing ground in itself and without additional exaggerations or disparagements.
To belittle the victims of the concentration camp in Jasenovac means to kill again the victims of the communist regime on the Ways of the Cross of Death.
What totalitarian ideologies have in common is precisely the downplaying of their own crimes and the exaggeration of the crimes of their ideological rival, both ideologies do not understand that a crime is always a crime regardless of who committed it and in whose name, and that there cannot and must not be forgiveness for crimes. During the time of President Tuđman, Croatia clearly condemned the Ustasha regime through the trial of the Ustasha officer Dink Šakić, namely, Šakić was sentenced to the maximum sentence that the Croatian judiciary provided for this type of crime. Dinko Šakić was found guilty and sentenced to 20 years in prison.
Croatia was created despite the Ustasha-partisan savagery
Stjepan Mesić will probably be recorded in history as one of the worst Croatian presidents of all time, however, Stjepan Mesić was elected by the will of the Croatian people and the majority of Croatian citizens, in other words, Mesić was the democratic leader of Croatia and if Mesić is a “traitor” he is not. traitor” because he spoke about Jasenovac, but above all because he tried to connect the Croatian defenders, the wartime Croatian president with an ideology to which they do not belong, namely, Mesić is the last surviving Ustasha musician in Croatia. Therefore, his pleas about anti-fascism have the same credibility as the confessions of concentration camp butchers.
Unfortunately, even today, when “we have Croatia”, we still haven’t found our peace in that Croatia, while the majority of citizens try to survive by remembering the legendary victories in the Homeland War, Ustashas and partisans are still fighting on the slopes of Kozara.
In conclusion, the modern Croatian state created in the whirlwind of the Homeland War was created on the foundations of the just and centuries-old aspiration of the Croatian people to finally realize their right to a free and sovereign, but democratic, state, not thanks to the Ustasha-communist regimes, but in spite of them.
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Interesting comments between Tinolovka-News, whose username was Tino and broken, but in fact it is the same person, whose real name is Miroslav Smolković, and user Delivuk. Delivuk is the grandson of the deceased. Gabre Boban, Vushkin (1879-Nova Godina 1948) from Bobanova Draga. The topic was:
NO REVISIONS OF JASENOVAC – JASENOVAC FACTS
Tino
10.03.2010 03:51 h
San read your article and little does San understand. Many are trying to prove that as few Serbs and others as possible were killed in Jasenovac, so that as many as possible remain alive. The way you write, it seems to you that as many Serbs as possible did not die in Jasenovac, so that there are as few as possible in Rvacka. Tino, my grandmother would say of such people that they are possessed by hatred that has no character. Wondering why you hate Serbs so much? The Serbs themselves would like to see as few dead as possible and as many alive as possible. They tried to prove it with others, and you, Tino, are trying to say that she was killed as much as your anti-fascists said and wrote from the beginning. A painful dream for the economy of human blood, especially our wrestling blood, so the fewer people killed, the more blood was saved. Every normal person will be happy and cheerful when it is proven that only a few Serbs died in Jasenovac instead of seven hundred thousand as you would like. When you are such a man in your hatred, it is lucky for our wrestling people that you were not in the Ustasha and in Jasenovac. Then the number of Serbs killed in Jasenovac would exceed one million. That’s it, my grandmother used to say: all kinds of things in and out of the world.
10.03.2010 12:55 h
Your grandpa was obviously saying all kinds of things, but nothing good.
I don’t know where you saw the hatred here because I’m talking about victims and not about hatred.
So, there is an official list of people, by name and surname, who died in Jasenovac. There is nothing to argue about, people are not cattle, people are people and human life has no price.
So, I was there and saw it all… For me, and for the whole civilized society, it is absolutely unacceptable to deny the victims of the Holocaust, of course it is not possible in the USA, without going behind the lock or in a madhouse, it is not even possible in Croatia. The civilized world does not accept that. And evil rejects. And no one will tell me that the USA is a communist country.
In other words, when the comments are read, I am the only consistent and normal Croat here, because I believe that people should not be killed, that the victims from both Bleiburg and Jasenovac should be respected.
If someone tries to downplay the victims, that someone is a mentally ill person who needs to be provided with accommodation in Vrapč.
So, I would be happy if no one was killed there, but as I was there and saw the list of those killed, seeing the way many of them were killed, I cannot be happy. nor do I want to be…
tino
10.03.2010 13:54 h
My friend sent me something personal for you and tells me to tell you that your chatter with Menon looks like you. I’m glad that Pajdo says that, because whatever looks like you is beautiful and good. He says that you enjoy as many victims as possible, so he sent me something in English that I don’t understand, so he sent it to you because you are a learned man and you know their language, so you will know what they say and how many people died in Jasenovac. More than you thought, so now you can be a little more satisfied, unless you want this figure to be revised as well, because according to your scholarship, you are against revising higher.
Tina, my friend says that you look like flirting with me, so to tell you the truth, I’m glad to flirt with you, because I think that little by little you will get rid of your anti-fascist disease, whatever you have. That’s what makes me happy. That’s my dream for the economy of bloodshed, and you enjoy the greatest numbers possible, so the greater the number of people who died, the more blood was spilled. The more blood is spilled, the less blood is economized. Well, there you are, my pretty tina, enjoy what you want. Bye.
tino
10.03.2010 13:58 h
I’m sorry, I forgot to send you the dream that I personally wanted to do for you.
Short documentary about terrible genocide. 840,000 Serbs are tortured and killed. Many of the Croatian fascists escaped after World War 2, and were never convicted of a terrible crime.
Jasenovac concentration camp was the largest concentration and extermination camp in Croatia during World War II. It was established by the Ustaša (Ustasha) regime of the Independent State of Croatia in August 1941. It was dismantled in April 1945. Unlike other concentration and extermination camps, in Jasenovac the main victims were ethnic Serbs, although other groups, like Jews and Gypsies, were also the victims there
“Over 80,000 victims perished in Jasenovac, not only Jews (although the Jewish people suffered the most), Serbs, Roma, but also a large number of Croats who did not agree with the regime in any way, after all, in Jasenovac he was imprisoned for a time and the true leader of the Croatian people of that time, Vladko Maček. “
10.03.2010 14:28 h
- Delivuk, do you think I’m so naive that I don’t know that it’s you, you forget who you’re dealing with?
- Don’t insult me for the last time I’m telling you, I didn’t invent that list, I got it from SCIENTISTS, HISTORIANS, AMONG THE OTHERS TUĐMAN WRITE ABOUT IT AND MENTIONED THAT NUMBER OF VICTIMS IN SOME OF HIS BOOKS. So turn to Tuđman.
- I don’t know why the Serbs besieged you, when I didn’t write that most Serbs died in Jasenovac, most Jews but also Croats, Roma and others died.
You who divide people according to nationality, such a thing would not occur to you in America. Why don’t you go to the streets in America dude and spew racism against dark-skinned people for example.
You have to understand that a man is a man, regardless of skin color and nationality.
I warn you, do not insult me, as I do not insult you.
Jurčević, Tuđman, Zidić and all other professors and scientists, mostly of right-wing orientation, unanimously agree that Jaseniovac is a losing ground. In Croatia, people go to prison for denying the Holocaust. It is also available in the USA.
Croatia has nothing to do with Pavelić, Pavelić is a coward who wiped out from Croatia instead of fighting, he left the people and the army at the mercy of the communists. Even a criminal like Hitler behaved more courageously and stayed in his Berlin.
10.03.2010 14:56 h
Therefore, I do not mention anywhere (Croatian historians have never acknowledged the fabrication of 840,000 victims) the fictitious figure of 840,000 Serbs, that is Great Serbian propaganda. This is precisely why Tuđman made a revision of the number of victims of Jasenovac through his books and put and reduced the number to a realistic range of 60,000 to 80,000 victims. I don’t see what would be controversial about that at all…
colony. tino
10.03.2010 21:34 h
The dream laughs when the dream reads your comment and is fed up with our Stipuka dove, who is always talking about the village that he knows when it will rain, when it is clear and when it is cloudy. That his validity annoyed the villagers and they asked him, painful Stipuka, how do you know all this. Stipuka replied to them that he would send his two sons, Mića and Ivan, outside to see how she was doing. When they come back, one says it’s cloudy and the other says it’s not. I went outside and one of them hit. Likewise for the rain, one says that it is raining, the other that it is not raining. When I went outside, my mother hit one of them.
Tina, the same could be said about your victims in Jasenovac. Someone guessed, either Serbs or Croats, and for me it was not a question. The question was how you said that “THERE IS NO REVISION TO RAISE JASENOVAC” , and I stand by the fact that there is. This is all! And it seems to piss you off and you call it:
” I’m warning you, don’t insult me …” My grandmother used to say when a man loses his temper, then he stops coming. Painful tino calm down a bit. Everyone knows that there were killings of innocent people everywhere in the world and in every war, including here in Rvacka. Everyone knows that your anti-fascists chose Jasenovac as a wasteland, as you say: A WASTELAND. My grandfather told me that it was not a dumping ground, but a Labor Concentration Camp . To satisfy you a little, that’s not even controversial. It’s debatable how you get along, today one thing tomorrow another.
Tino, my grandmother used to say: Who fathers a cow, fathers a son. This means that whoever steals a small hen will also steal a big ox. So a thief remains a thief, a villain who kills innocent people remains a villain. We all agree on that. It was by no means a question or a mention of a loser, as you said. The question was the REVISION OF THE HISTORY OF JASENOVC , when you began to present your anti-fascist litanies, and you asserted ” THERE IS NO REVISION OF HISTORY “.
Tina, my friend told me that you don’t have the nerve for normal guys. You punda p…… and you start to shiat rukan around you like a policeman at a crossroads. Cool down a bit. And tomorrow is the day, my grandfather would say. I dream with pigs, what dream did I tell you that if the Rvats had killed fewer Serbs in Jasenovac, today it would be more. The dream called the economy of rivers of blood. You are angry that the dream told you that far fewer Serbs died in Jesenovac than is being said. You, Tina, who is a good all-rounder, should start looking for those who, without any fear, increased the victims every year from the real number, whatever it was, to numbers over millions, why did these people increase those numbers like that? What was their purpose in inflating those numbers to over a million? What a shame it was for the wrestlers not to look out for so many years that that figure is correct. Tino you jump from rock to rock, who people are when they approach a small stream and jump from stone to stone so that their shoes don’t melt. Because the dream expresses my opinion, you will now throw trees and stones at me. Thank God that sleep is far from you, so you won’t be able to put me in a CAGE AND THROW THE KEYS. All you can do now is say that you are worthy. Bye.
10.03.2010 21:43 h
It’s one thing to be drunk and “stone the synagogue” And it’s another thing to “STONE” with your lies everything that is Croatian – state-building. Lying, that his mother taught him to hate Serbs, what can I add?
What mother will teach her children about EVIL, etc.? Enough of the normal!
10.03.2010 21:48 h
I think that some of you are getting boring with your comments. You are not historians, let’s leave it to future historians, when their heads cool down a bit, the so-called “anti-fascists”, to look at the circumstances under which the NDH was created from an objective historical perspective. We just need to bring documentary evidence from different experts, so that only one side is not heard, which we have only had to listen to for the past 65 years.
There was good and evil on both sides. Wasn’t it sad that they were fighting brother against brother?
I am convinced that there are readers on JAVNOME who want to hear and know what they say and those who participated in the creation of the NDH.
Therefore, let everyone express their views, and let whoever believes whomever they want, and writing about Croatian history, why should one go to prison? So, some are afraid of the TRUTH, and the TRUTH will save us.
I am firmly convinced that my two deceased BROTHERS did not kill anyone, because they did not even have time to be on the battlefield, and yet they passed the WAY OF THE CROSS, innocent as our DEAR JESUS was INNOCENT, so again people spat on him and on condemned to death.
I don’t hate anyone, because my upbringing and my faith don’t teach me that, and if I defend the truth about the sad events of WW2, it doesn’t mean that I’m an evil person or “anti-fascist”. that I am a fascist, which the Croatian people have never been present with.
With this, I finish my comments about WW2, and I will bring the truth about Croatia, and if that bothers you, don’t read it.
With Croatian greetings, I wish everyone the best! Patriot
10.03.2010 23:20 h
Delivuk
I warned you when you started spouting nonsense. So, when you started listing “my Tito”, “my Mesić”.
I don’t want to be from Tito or from Mesić, I’m from Tuđman, so I believe in his judgment regarding Jasenovac as a historian, Tuđman was a historian.
Your grandfather obviously did nothing but talk… So let me tell you something that my grandfather said as an Ustasha officer, as a soldier who went through all the battlefields in the NDH and broke out on the Drina with Francetić.
You see, he said this in order to break Pavelic’s bones after he betrayed him and the army and cowardly wiped him out of Bleiburg while the communists massacred the people in that Bleiburg. Why didn’t he stay with his army, his men as commander-in-chief? It’s not because he was a scoundrel and a coward.
While Pavelić was with Franco (another dictator) and was negotiating with Stojedinović, my grandfather fought with the crusaders against the UDBA (YEAR 46), and later hid from the UDBA for a full seven or eight years in bunkers, forests and villages, and his wife, my grandmother, was taken to prison by the same UDBA at least 30 times and tortured there, thank God, she is still alive today, so she can testify about that and she testified when police investigators inquired about communist post-war crimes. So please don’t mention the grandfather, he obviously spoke more than a puppeteer in the circus, without anything concrete from that…
Patriot
11.03.2010 00:11 h
I am firmly convinced that my two deceased BROTHERS did not kill anyone, because they did not even have time to be on the battlefield, and yet they went through the CRISIS PATH.
That is certainly true, because thousands of innocent people perished at Bleiburg.
really, really, really, and again really,
11.03.2010 01:09 h
I am glad. Little by little, you are getting closer to our wrestling truth. Now you are on Pavelić and his bones. Get fed up with what you used to be. Now you are from Tudjmanova. Well, there are others too. If Tudjman was Chinese, what would your punda be? Tudjman is a Rvat, that’s why you are also a Rvat. Tudjman fights for Wvacka, that’s what you are for Tudjman’s Wvacka. Tito is not fighting for Rvacka, that’s why you are not for Tito. Mesić is not fighting for Rvacka, that’s why you are not for Mesić. That’s how you were the other day. According to that rule, all Wrestlers who fought for Rvacka are good Wrestlers and you are for them. When that’s the case, Pavelić is also fighting for Rvacka and he should be a good Croatian. When Pavelić was fighting for Rvacka and then there were Wrestlers in Rvacka who loved Rvacka as well as Pavelić, so they approached him to fight together for our and your Rvacka.
Tino, in that Pavelić’s fight for Rvacka, your grandfather was also there in the Rvacka army. The other day she was in the Home Guard, that’s what you said, now she’s still in the Ustasha. Where is your truth now? Is this the same grandfather of yours who was in the Home Guard and went to Pavelić to mediate and thus he, your grandfather, saved 125 Serbs. Tina, it is a great thing for both God and man to save so many people from certain death. A film should be made about your grandfather, so that the truth is known about who he was. then it would be known if your grandfather was in the Ustasha or in the Home Guard.
I’m sorry that your grandmother is suffering so much, like that “Blažinova luga” hen, if you remember when you dream one day it says that one hen was under a varicocele. I understand you there. And my two uncles who were in the Ustasha would not have fared better than your grandfather if it weren’t for those other two uncles who wore the Serbian sajkaca and were in the anti-fascist brigades and protected them. My grandmother was a village camp worker, she didn’t mean anything to anyone, so she didn’t have many quarrels with the “people’s authorities” either.
Only Tino, as far as some people know, and I wasn’t born yesterday either, your grandfather could be a national hero for the deed he did near Pavelić and saved 125 Serbs. According to the anti-fascist rules, they would classify him as a “first-time fighter” and he has their pension as long as he is alive, so he wouldn’t have to spend so many years. Maybe she has to be blamed for being an Ustasha, and you know very well that the anti-fascists were more against the Ustasha than the Home Guard. Or we will stick to the one: if you eat lunch, don’t wait for dinner .
Your grandmother, god bless you, is still alive as you say, so you should ask her about a lot of things before it’s too late. Please say hello to your grandmother and tell her to tell you everything she knows, whether her husband was in the Ustasha or the Home Guard, because it seems that you don’t know exactly either.
11.03.2010 01:51 h
In order to save 100 people, you don’t need to be a “people’s hero” but just a human.
You know that Pavelić wore the Home Guard uniform more and more towards the end of the war.
That the Home Guards were a regular army and the Ustasha were a party army. When you know that, then you know very well that my grandfather joined the regular army and got a rank, and you also know that he later joined the Ustasha and got a rank there too… That he was in Pavelić’s association in Zagreb and that after that went to Bosnia. After all, Ivana wrote about it in detail, long and widely.
After all, the Croatian State Archives has all the notes on senior officers of the NDH. it is enough just to go there.
How would Pavelić fight for Croatia? By betraying the army and wiping out Stojadinović? While the Bleiburg field was turning into a slaughterhouse and while your grandfather was “speaking”.
Not all Croats, only those who are not war criminals. There are tares in every grain, even in Croatia. Democratic Croatia, just that, not Italian, not Yugoslav and not German, only Croatia-Croatia.
You simply have to get well or stay sick. Who is still normal divides people by nationality, either they are guilty or they are not. No one is guilty because he is of this or that nationality, but because he is good or bad. What can I do about Pavelić betraying the army he was the commander of, I can’t do anything about it, I didn’t force him to do it. letters that the wrestling soldiers drank
11.03.2010 18:06 h
Pajdo sent me this letter and says that all the wrestling soldiers liked to read it. I only know that my two uncles who wore our wrestling uniform used to drink it. Unknown to those other two uncles who wore the anti-fascist Yugoslav uniform. Your grandmother was in two wrestling armies, first in the Home Guards and later in the Ustasha, so that she ended up with Križar, and later she hid in bunkers for several years. It remains to be seen if he read this letter that he sent me. I have never seen her before.
USTAKA SONG
(Sung by Poglavnik, year 1931)
Videos
Anthem of the Ustaše: Puska Puca
Connor
YouTube – Jun 29, 2018
Puska Puca – Anthem of the Ustaše
The rifle fires and the cannon roars, thunders like thunder,
Now the Ustaša flag is flying for the Croatian home.
The rifle fires, blood is shed, the enemy runs away,
and the brave Ustasha army fulfills its sacred vow.
He boldly chases the enemy from the grandfather’s threshold,
And raises the old glory of the Croatian race.
The rifle fires and the cannon roars, gunpowder smells,
Young Ustaša on the battlefield, wounded, breathes life.
He is not frightened by the thunder of rifles or the roar of cannons,
Home, freedom, faithful love, are his wound medicine.
O Croatia, dear land, your tribute is dawning,
Now the Ustasha brave army is fighting for you.
To me, it’s just so that you can’t drink with the fiddle. Maybe your taxes are turned to your liking, as it suits you, today this way, tomorrow that way and whatever the wind blows and the clouds cover.
letters that the wrestling soldiers drank
11.03.2010 18:12 h
Pajdmo sent me this letter and says that all the wrestling soldiers liked to drink it. I only know that my two uncles who wore our wrestling uniform used to drink it. Unknown to those other two uncles who wore the anti-fascist Yugoslav uniform. Your grandmother was in two armed forces, the first in the Home Guard and later in the Ustasha to end up with Križar, and later she hid in bunkers for several years. It remains to be seen whether he read this letter that he sent me. I have never seen her before.
USTAŠKA SONG
(Sung by Poglavnik, year 1931)
(audio 2019, still working) https://altcensored.com/watch?v=pOs82l8K1rk
The rifle fires and the cannon roars, thunders like thunder,
Now the Ustaša flag is flying for the Croatian home.
The rifle fires, blood is shed, the enemy runs away,
and the brave Ustasha army fulfills its sacred vow.
He boldly chases the enemy from the grandfather’s threshold,
And raises the old glory of the Croatian race.
The rifle fires and the cannon roars, gunpowder smells,
Young Ustaša on the battlefield, wounded, breathes life.
He is not frightened by the thunder of rifles or the roar of cannons,
Home, freedom, faithful love, are his wound medicine.
O Croatia, dear land, your tribute is dawning,
Now the Ustasha brave army is fighting for you.
I’m only sorry that you can’t drink with the fiddle. Maybe your manners are turned in your own way, as it suits you, today this way, tomorrow that way and however the wind blows and the clouds cover it.
tino
11.03.2010 18:41 h
He forgets to ask you something. My grandfather used to say that a bad horse has only one flaw: BAD and that’s it. A good horse has a hundred faults, for being good, so everyone finds a fault in something. Why do you forget to ask her if you think so too? If you are a punda, the Chief is good because he has a hundred flaws.
Delivuk
12.03.2010 00:13 h
I don’t know if he sang or not, unfortunately I didn’t have the chance to meet him. Possibly so.
I wouldn’t comment on the rest because it’s not worth discussing, when someone puts ideology before the victim, you can’t argue with him.
However, when you say this, it suits you, today this way, tomorrow that way and however the wind blows and the clouds cover it. ”
Then, of course, they are not right, namely, my views are not from yesterday, but forever, you need to go to my text from last year, more than a year ago, and the text talks about Vjekoslav Lasić, so you will be convinced of the coexistence of my views, that is, consistency.
You defend your position, I defend mine, and there is nothing controversial about that. The positions will not change, at least as far as I’m concerned.
tino
12.03.2010 13:33 h
My attitude is a wrestling attitude, always was and always will be. I was a victim in my house of anti-fascism, communism, Judaism and Ustasha. You annoy me with your anti-fascism to the point that I have to tell you that I’m full of the ideology you’re talking about. For real and exactly and I don’t know what that means. If the essence of Rvat is ideology, then I’m proud of myself. If ideology is all that conveys our wrestling and our wrestling name, I’m still proud of it.
I dream of your position. You like to fight. My grandmother would say that you like to put a lid on every pot. So be it if it makes you big and cheerful. Tino you won. You continue to thrash the anti-fascist straw, I will continue to pray to my dear God, right now in the season of Lent, to respect and love my Wrvacka with all her good and bad things, all her good things to the Wrestlers and her bad things to the Wrestlers, because what is wrestling remains always wrestling. . As for wrestling, I did not renounce that, as Stepinac did not renounce even a single Wrestler in court. With this, I end every discussion of this kind with you.
My grandmother used to say: SMARTER DISCOUNTS!
12.03.2010 14:02 h
Delivuk
I would not agree with you, you constantly humiliated and insulted me, and even now you are implying that you are a believer and I am not. You, my Tito, and my Mesić, you are a traitor, you are one way or another, I did not mention you personally, but I argued with your views, or rather, with the views of your grandfather, who constantly spoke and you tolerated it.
I haven’t heard any of your views here, except your grandfather’s empty straw thrashing.
That’s why I didn’t even want to oppose you as you deserve, namely, I presented myself here with my first and last name, you are hiding from three nicknames. You know very well what the other two are.
You didn’t even mention the names and surnames of those uncles and grandfather you talk about so much, then they would know who fought where and why.
Therefore, I fully support your idea to pray during Lent, pray for all the victims of Jasenovac, Bleiburg, for your grandfather, for my grandfather, for your uncles, for yourself and for me and for CROATIA, OF COURSE.
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